Comments on: After the ‘07 burn, and Afterburn ‘07: news from BMHQ http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:59:34 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Tang http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1257 Tang Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:20:55 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1257 Sunset and Ghostrider: I’ve been greeting on Monday afternoons for the last four years. Every year, we watch the newbie population grow, and grow in a manor that seems to be non-exponential. In other words, first timers used to show up mid or late week, but are now showing up early. Why? Maybe they feel as though they want to get there money’s worth. Who knows? Point is, that population segment is on the rise. The greeters perform a necessary function. Many first timers come only with other first timers, and really haven’t got a clue. A little orientation is absolutely necessary. Most everyone that shows up is slightly agro, newbie or not, weather there is a line or not. If an express lane is opened, the people that will use it are probably the people that most need it. There has been discussion about brining bell ringers inside, out of line, but for some reason it has been discouraged. Lines happen entering and exiting the event. They are annoying. If you want to avoid them, you might want to time your arrival in the early morning hours. For the time being, that seems to work. When waiting in greeters starts to piss you off, try to remember your fist arrival. See you at home. Sunset and Ghostrider: I’ve been greeting on Monday afternoons for the last four years. Every year, we watch the newbie population grow, and grow in a manor that seems to be non-exponential. In other words, first timers used to show up mid or late week, but are now showing up early. Why? Maybe they feel as though they want to get there money’s worth. Who knows? Point is, that population segment is on the rise.

The greeters perform a necessary function. Many first timers come only with other first timers, and really haven’t got a clue. A little orientation is absolutely necessary. Most everyone that shows up is slightly agro, newbie or not, weather there is a line or not. If an express lane is opened, the people that will use it are probably the people that most need it. There has been discussion about brining bell ringers inside, out of line, but for some reason it has been discouraged.

Lines happen entering and exiting the event. They are annoying. If you want to avoid them, you might want to time your arrival in the early morning hours. For the time being, that seems to work. When waiting in greeters starts to piss you off, try to remember your fist arrival.

See you at home.

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]]> By: Ghostrider http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1193 Ghostrider Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:27:04 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1193 I'm all about an "Express lane..seems that we had our day once but, with all the new directions at the burningman event one could be maybe, an express lane?" I support the idea of a "faster entrance for we folk coming home again." Please....kiss kiss hug hug Ghostrider I’m all about an “Express lane..seems that we had our day once but, with all the new directions at the burningman event one could be maybe, an express lane?”

I support the idea of a “faster entrance for we folk coming home again.” Please….kiss kiss hug hug

Ghostrider

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]]> By: sunset http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1082 sunset Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:37:50 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1082 the only news i'm looking for is that there will be an EXPRESS LANE for non-newbs at the greeter station....pleeeese? it just about kills me to make it all the way there, and then sit and crawl forward while the occupants of cars empty out and proceed to have their pics taken in all positions w/ the bell...then trade cameras and do it all over again and again and again. then next car and the next. i'm so close and yet so far. believe me, i've tried the cool down method...crack a beer, sit back and enjoy their glee. well, i'm all gleed out...what about it...EXPRESS LANE anyone??? hey, i said pleeeese! just another gorgeous sunset the only news i’m looking for is that there will be an EXPRESS LANE for non-newbs at the greeter station….pleeeese?

it just about kills me to make it all the way there, and then sit and crawl forward while the occupants of cars empty out and proceed to have their pics taken in all positions w/ the bell…then trade cameras and do it all over again and again and again. then next car and the next. i’m so close and yet so far. believe me, i’ve tried the cool down method…crack a beer, sit back and enjoy their glee. well, i’m all gleed out…what about it…EXPRESS LANE anyone???

hey, i said pleeeese!

just another gorgeous sunset

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]]> By: wrybread http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1062 wrybread Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:12:38 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1062 Are these comments being moderated? If anyone here cares, there's a much more balanced discussion here: http://laughingsquid.com/paul-addis-pleads-guilty-to-burning-man-2007-arson-charges/ Amidst the chatter at that link, a very interesting fact arose from someone who works in law enforcement in Nevada: Bman.org was twice given the opportunity to go easy on Paul and have the charges minimized to something less than a felony. All they had to do was say the damage was less than $5k. Instead they showed up in court with possibly inflated receipts showing $30k. This person (he posted he posted his credentials at that link) says that the people at the court were surprised by how blood-thirsty the people at bman.org were for Paul's prosecution. I'm not saying here whether I think Paul should or shouldn't have gotten the sentence, only that I think it's important for people to know that when bman.org says "we didn't have anything to do with the sentence", they're not quite telling the truth. Are these comments being moderated? If anyone here cares, there’s a much more balanced discussion here:

http://laughingsquid.com/paul-addis-pleads-guilty-to-burning-man-2007-arson-charges/

Amidst the chatter at that link, a very interesting fact arose from someone who works in law enforcement in Nevada: Bman.org was twice given the opportunity to go easy on Paul and have the charges minimized to something less than a felony. All they had to do was say the damage was less than $5k. Instead they showed up in court with possibly inflated receipts showing $30k.

This person (he posted he posted his credentials at that link) says that the people at the court were surprised by how blood-thirsty the people at bman.org were for Paul’s prosecution.

I’m not saying here whether I think Paul should or shouldn’t have gotten the sentence, only that I think it’s important for people to know that when bman.org says “we didn’t have anything to do with the sentence”, they’re not quite telling the truth.

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]]> By: Iain http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1060 Iain Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:19:23 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1060 It comes down to this. Burning Man is no longer counter culture. Burning man is no longer about radical self expression. Burning Man is part of the establishment. Expression shall be kept within non-radical limits - using law enforcement as necessary. Burning Man is now "The Man" We all new it was headed that way - now it's gone all the way. The BORG proved Paul Addis' point (even if he was somewhat crazy in making it)). Time to move on. Iain Quote from Pershing County insider: > "BM had two opportunities to close this case with less flesh off Addis' > bones. They declined. In fact, they pushed hard for maximum > prosecution and maximum sentence. That's what they got. Even some > people on the legal side were surprised at the level of BM's > vengeance. They didn't expect "the hippies" to behave that way. > The judge, as you might expect from a small town in conservative, > rural Nevada, was not interested in all the self-important "cultural" > arguments from either side, especially from Addis. In his statement at > the sentencing hearing he followed BM's argument that they are running > a big business and that Addis caused severe damage to that business. > What it boiled down to was money, and BM's testimony leaned heavily in > that direction. If they had gone a little easier in that regard Addis > probably would have gotten some jail time, but not four years and a felony rap." It comes down to this.
Burning Man is no longer counter culture.
Burning man is no longer about radical self expression.
Burning Man is part of the establishment.
Expression shall be kept within non-radical limits – using law enforcement as necessary.
Burning Man is now “The Man”

We all new it was headed that way – now it’s gone all the way.
The BORG proved Paul Addis’ point (even if he was somewhat crazy in making it)).
Time to move on.

Iain

Quote from Pershing County insider:
> “BM had two opportunities to close this case with less flesh off Addis’
> bones. They declined. In fact, they pushed hard for maximum
> prosecution and maximum sentence. That’s what they got. Even some
> people on the legal side were surprised at the level of BM’s
> vengeance. They didn’t expect “the hippies” to behave that way.
> The judge, as you might expect from a small town in conservative,
> rural Nevada, was not interested in all the self-important “cultural”
> arguments from either side, especially from Addis. In his statement at
> the sentencing hearing he followed BM’s argument that they are running
> a big business and that Addis caused severe damage to that business.
> What it boiled down to was money, and BM’s testimony leaned heavily in
> that direction. If they had gone a little easier in that regard Addis
> probably would have gotten some jail time, but not four years and a felony rap.”

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]]> By: Scott the Fabulous http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1058 Scott the Fabulous Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:37:07 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1058 We have all heard the for and against for this clown. It all comes down to this. If people like this think that acts of vandalism are acts of art we are in bigger trouble than we know We have all heard the for and against for this clown. It all comes down to this. If people like this think that acts of vandalism are acts of art we are in bigger trouble than we know

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]]> By: Al Billings http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1029 Al Billings Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:50:18 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1029 Then there is the fact that people who were *underneath* the Man when he torched had to be rescued at the risk of others because they were not awake or aware. He could easily have killed someone with his "art" and he put people at risk *and* cost the org thousands of dollars (and quite a few manhours from volunteers) to rebuild the Man after his art. Sure sounds like arson to me. Maybe people would be happier if he'd managed to kill someone in the fire. Then there is the fact that people who were *underneath* the Man when he torched had to be rescued at the risk of others because they were not awake or aware. He could easily have killed someone with his “art” and he put people at risk *and* cost the org thousands of dollars (and quite a few manhours from volunteers) to rebuild the Man after his art.

Sure sounds like arson to me. Maybe people would be happier if he’d managed to kill someone in the fire.

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]]> By: Martin http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1024 Martin Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:31:25 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1024 Addis obviously needs help. Interpreting his actions as if they were merely disagreeable decisions made by a sane, stable person does not address the problem. It's unfortunate that neither the legal system nor Addis himself seems able to negotiate this territory effectively. It's very disappointing that Burning Man LLC, with all its creative brainpower and community spirit, is also unwilling to step in and recognize this as a mental health issue rather than a simple criminal act. The damage to the festival was real, though. Burning Man spends millions to orchestrate a grand and complex ritual, and the arson was a physical, financial and personal blow that affected many, many people. Some burners applied their cavalier attitude to the strange turn of events - but what else could they do? But they didn't pay hundreds of dollars so the man could be burned before they got there, though. Addis obviously needs help. Interpreting his actions as if they were merely disagreeable decisions made by a sane, stable person does not address the problem. It’s unfortunate that neither the legal system nor Addis himself seems able to negotiate this territory effectively.

It’s very disappointing that Burning Man LLC, with all its creative brainpower and community spirit, is also unwilling to step in and recognize this as a mental health issue rather than a simple criminal act.

The damage to the festival was real, though. Burning Man spends millions to orchestrate a grand and complex ritual, and the arson was a physical, financial and personal blow that affected many, many people. Some burners applied their cavalier attitude to the strange turn of events – but what else could they do? But they didn’t pay hundreds of dollars so the man could be burned before they got there, though.

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]]> By: Canvas http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1022 Canvas Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:43:37 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1022 He got what he deserved. Enough of this hippie political correct shit. He set the man on fire, endangering nearby folks and he pissed all over a lot of peoples hard work. There seems to be a distinct lack of respect for the art lately. I was deeply saddened to see art being vandalized and tagged at BRC last year. For some of us, its ALL about the art. He got what he deserved. Enough of this hippie political correct shit. He set the man on fire, endangering nearby folks and he pissed all over a lot of peoples hard work.
There seems to be a distinct lack of respect for the art lately. I was deeply saddened to see art being vandalized and tagged at BRC last year. For some of us, its ALL about the art.

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]]> By: daMongolian http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988&cpage=1#comment-1019 daMongolian Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:40:28 +0000 http://blog.burningman.com/?p=1988#comment-1019 @jdj I still respectfully disagree....it is a perfect analogy. As long as I've been going to the event (2001) I recall that one of the tenets was to respect the art of others....it is certainly one as of last year...as documented by last years survival guide (look quick before it's updated with this years) http://www.burningman.com/preparation/event_survival/participant_responsibilities.html take a look at #5 Fire Guidelines "Respect artwork. If artwork is to be burned, ONLY the artist who created it may ignite it. " Now, I recognize and respect that it probably was not always like this, or at the very least not something that was verbally said and put into print. But...that's the way it is NOW. Sure, I'll buy that Mr. Addis actions may have been his art, in protest of how the event has evolved and the state that it is now in. But, the fact remains that both by definition of Nevada Law, and also by the survival guide that man was not his to set aflame. I applaud that he executed his act (art) most successfully and picked the perfect night, the perfect time and the year the configuration of the structure to do so. But, it still remains, arson, it wasn't his Man to burn, just as Meg's mythical sandwich is not mine to eat. Just because something is art, it doesn't mean it won't have consequences. Same thing with civil disobedience....making a statement by getting arrested. If you're not willing to get arrested, don't make the statement. Since it was arson, and he was found to be the person responsible for it, there are consequences. Do they fit the crime? Maybe not, though in light of some of his other actions since the act with which we are primarily discussing, (Seattle desk clerks, SF Schoolkids/teachers and Grace Cathedral) I feel comfortable saying that I think he does need to spend some time away from the rest of us. Though, I don't think the particular place he's going to be spending his time, is going to get him the type of help he appears to need either; however that is still yet another debate and not this one. Again, these are all my views alone. (except of course the excerpt I copied from the SG) @jdj I still respectfully disagree….it is a perfect analogy.

As long as I’ve been going to the event (2001) I recall that one of the tenets was to respect the art of others….it is certainly one as of last year…as documented by last years survival guide (look quick before it’s updated with this years)

http://www.burningman.com/preparation/event_survival/participant_responsibilities.html

take a look at #5 Fire Guidelines “Respect artwork. If artwork is to be burned, ONLY the artist who created it may ignite it. ”

Now, I recognize and respect that it probably was not always like this, or at the very least not something that was verbally said and put into print. But…that’s the way it is NOW.

Sure, I’ll buy that Mr. Addis actions may have been his art, in protest of how the event has evolved and the state that it is now in. But, the fact remains that both by definition of Nevada Law, and also by the survival guide that man was not his to set aflame. I applaud that he executed his act (art) most successfully and picked the perfect night, the perfect time and the year the configuration of the structure to do so. But, it still remains, arson, it wasn’t his Man to burn, just as Meg’s mythical sandwich is not mine to eat. Just because something is art, it doesn’t mean it won’t have consequences.

Same thing with civil disobedience….making a statement by getting arrested. If you’re not willing to get arrested, don’t make the statement.

Since it was arson, and he was found to be the person responsible for it, there are consequences. Do they fit the crime? Maybe not, though in light of some of his other actions since the act with which we are primarily discussing, (Seattle desk clerks, SF Schoolkids/teachers and Grace Cathedral) I feel comfortable saying that I think he does need to spend some time away from the rest of us. Though, I don’t think the particular place he’s going to be spending his time, is going to get him the type of help he appears to need either; however that is still yet another debate and not this one.

Again, these are all my views alone. (except of course the excerpt I copied from the SG)

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