Comments on: How many theme camps can dance on the head of a Burning Man ticket?

By: Michelle

Michelle — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:32:52 +0000

I may have a different perspective. I have been a leader of theme camps since 2004 and a participant since 2000. Over the years we have built community. This did not happen over night, it took time. We have invested in infrastructure, and developed art and interaction. Community has a foundation of experience-without that you are starting over every time. We start planning our camp as soon as we leave the playa. Last year we were uncertain whether our crew (or the other campers who help fund our camp and perform) would be ticketed. This made it difficult to plan and start working. We have always included new people. However with many camps only having 20-25% ticketed, it may be difficult to find that many new, dependable, available or experienced burners to pull off a camp. At the very least, it would make it difficult to plan ahead which can make the difference between good art and great art! I know of several major art projects that would not have been on the playa if it were not for those 10,000 tickets. These pieces take time to plan, and people are less willing to commit time and money if they are unticketed. Less than 17% of the tickets went to artists, theme camps and art cars. Most camps and artists had 20-25% of their crew ticketed. Many of these people have spent years of time, money and effort to build BRC, with no thought of reward. Instead of thinking of people wanting special treatment, perhaps it could be thought of as honoring the artists, community builders and elders. BM used criteria to decide who wold get tickets. Consider those 10,000 tickets are an investment in our community. It is worth committing those tickets you know are going to produce good fruit. They go directly into making BRC happen. Oregon Country Fair has an elder program for people who have served 20 years to honor their elders for their service. Last year almost half the tickets went to new burners, which is good and inclusive and brings new ideas and energy. New camps were placed. I know that some groups may have “gamed” the system. We were lucky and only asked for one ticket. A totally random lottery would certainly change the event. This is a social experiment. What kind of community do we want to build? Is 17% of the tickets available worth ensuring that art and established communities have time and a crew to continue to grow and build on the foundation we have all contributed to? I hope it is. Volunteers such as greeters who work a certain number of shifts for the burningman organization are garanteed tickets for next year. Fire conclave gets reduced ticket prices and some free tickets. What are theme camps, art installations and art cars worth?

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By: Electric Jed

Electric Jed — Fri, 14 Dec 2012 05:22:35 +0000

There is no circumstance where a lottery will work. So much bad will was created that it still lingers. It was a catastrophic idea last year and would be so in any year. Burning Man is hard to do. Sorry, but that’s the way it is and has been. There is a reason Radical self-reliance is a principle. The ticket price is almost irrelevant. It is one of the smallest of all the costs to attend the event. The tickets are priced in tiers for one reason only: To drive up demand and sell out as soon as possible. It makes perfect sense. The Org needs money to put the thing on and they need it as early as possible to pay for everything. The lottery was designed to drive an hysterical demand to get all the money in January, and guess what? It worked!

Don’t be fooled by all the excuses of fairness, equal access and such. These are the same subterfuge and lipstick on a pig found in your garden variety political campaigns. It’s about MONEY. Oh come on, don’t look so shocked.

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By: Shade

Shade — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 06:31:13 +0000

Lot’s of interesting comments and it’s all worth reading. Last year I thought about elaborate ticket sales plans but have realized none would work. Non-transferable tickets.. too easy to get around. Just use a fake Romainian name and dummy up a fake Romainian drivers license. How would the volunteers at the gate know.

In the good old days, if you suddenly could not go, you were lucky to sell your ticket, you typically had to give it away. Any one with a plan already had a ticket.

What I like:
A single price for all tickets. I resent paying more just because I didn’t win. I have yet to meet anyone who didn’t simply gloat over scoring a cheaper ticket.
Release a ticket block late. Maybe 4000 tickets in July and then more in August. That will truly mess with scalpers to the point where they are not a factor. Make it clear that if you are just thinking about BM, this is the time to buy, not early when you may be stuck with a ticket you cannot sell.
Charge a late comer fee at the gate for arrivals after Thursday midnight. Maybe $400 per vehicle. This will cut demand for tickets. This is not implemented if the main block of tickets doesn’t sell out. So control ticket sales by use restrictions that can be removed if demand is dampened too much. Another way could be to sell early round tickets based on the day you want to enter. People who plan, like theme camps, know.

Last year I believe that it was the sense that you couldn’t loose if you got in the lottery. If you went, great, if not, you could sell your ticket at a profit. We burners were thinking like scalpers. It didn’t work out that way, but I saw a lot of tickets change hands, most at face value. I’m pretty sure that won’t happen again this year and that a lottery like last year will be a success.

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By: kay

kay — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 02:07:27 +0000

Do it the OLD way, if people STILL haven’t gotten their tickets by fricking JULY, to hell with them… Please, don’t screw it up again this year…

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By: Craig Kind

Craig Kind — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:46:24 +0000

*Speaking from the perspective of someone that runs a small-medium sized camp (40+ people).

Another great article on a very complicated subject. I’ll highlight this to be the crux of the argument/ point of view

“They’re saying faith alone … the desire to go to Burning Man and be a part of this community … now counts for much less.”

Faith will always be the driving force behind Burning Man. Not faith in Gods. Faith in yourself. If you want to go, you’ll find a way. That will never change. The statistics drop from X Amount of People who want to go, Vs. X amount of People that will do whatever it takes to get there. The struggle to get out there, to get organized, has always been there. The climb is a little higher now, that’s all. As long as the tickets are distributed, we will find a way to find a way.

While the Protestant Reformation is an interesting framework for the article, we’re obviously not taking into account that this isn’t heaven. It’s a city in the desert. Unlike heaven, you actually have to build it. Theme camps and Art installations are the power tools. That doesn’t entitle entry alone, faith does. It got 20+ people out there who didn’t get tickets in the lottery, and it’ll get more out next year.

I think you’ve come up with the solution. Have faith. Distribute the tickets, and simply understand that the people who want to be there, will be there.

God exists, I just don’t believe in him. I do however, believe in you.

Frog, Platypus & The Band

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By: Mercedese Witty

Mercedese Witty — Mon, 10 Dec 2012 07:58:08 +0000

Sell your tickets the old way, half through the websites and half through the real world distributors. No one is allowed to buy more than one ticket per person and you have your name assigned to the ticket…. If for some reason you can’t go to Burning Man, you turn your ticket in to the Burning Man company and they resell it to a new person, and assign them your name and then they refund you the money… This would eliminate the scalping issues. Theme Camps, registered ones and proving what they bring to the playa would put in a list of essential camp personnel to be assigned tickets outside the first come first served deal… You can’t have Burning Man without the camps and they can’t run their show without their people. However, each camp should be alloted X amount of people, this is not a scam for everyone to go on the Theme Camp ride… reasonable numbers people. All tickets should be to assigned names and you provide your identification at the Gate. The low income ticket people have to do that and there is no way to scalp a low income ticket other than if you are the identical twin of the person who holds the ticket. The event is going to have to expand and that is just the way it is, more people are going to have to allowed to go up to 100,000 which should be the absolute cap on the population. Scalpers must be eliminated. Name assigned tickets only available through transfer through the Burning Man Company. I have been going for the last five years, you can’t have Burning Man without the Theme Camps and the big art projects.

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By: digrok

digrok — Sun, 09 Dec 2012 05:20:31 +0000

DRAGON PiLOT AND OTHERS…take away all the 1500 theme camps…and mutant vehicles…and keeping with the ideal of scrapping all preferential treatment…which would mean eliminating the art projects too. Then you will see plenty of available tickets for sale during those scarcely attended years…thousands upon thousands of them. At least until they reinstate what took Bman from a couple of thousand people to the great event it has now become.

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By: Dragon Pilot

Dragon Pilot — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 22:29:08 +0000

Did you ever wonder what BRC would be like without preferentially-treated theme camps and mutant vehicles? *GASP…WRINGS HANDS…SOBS*

Making special ticketing concessions for theme camps seems to be one of the big sticking points here…minimizing theme camp participation might just result in something amazing. Same could be said for the mutant vehicles. They haven’t always been there…I wonder what would fill the vacuum?

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By: Ezra Erb

Ezra Erb — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 20:54:58 +0000

Reading through these comments, I see something missing: how to handle theme camps. One of the biggest complaints about last year is that only a fraction of theme camp particpants got tickets in the initial lottery, really screwing up the camp planning process. I see the following options for handling this:
1. Theme camp tickets. Camps apply for placement very early and those that get picked get guarenteed tickets. I really hate this idea because it forces the organizers to choose who is worthy enough for tickets. It will also drive new partipants toward existing camps.
2. Theme camp lottery. Camps apply for a special round of lottery tickets, and only a certain fraction get them. People will probably scream that certain favorite camps may not be at any given Burn, but I like this idea. It allows new camps to get in, bringing new ideas and new blood.
3. First come, first served. If tickets are non-transferrable except to other camp members (and others can’t transfer at all) this will probably work. Open transfer will become a scalper feeding frenzy.
4. General lottery with tickets picked in big blocks. The big blocks allow theme camps to enter as a unit and get all their tickets at once. This system was used at Firefly (the New England Regional) this year and worked well.

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By: Mandy curnow

Mandy curnow — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 13:17:38 +0000

well for my thoughts – and it doesn’t really cover camps or groups but as someone who paid $1100 per ticket in 2012 on Stubhub – yes thats right, $1,100 (because we had to book our air tickets and work leave in February and didn’t get any tickets in the lottery) I would like to leave the scalpers/fortune takers out of the system and go with names printed on tickets and if you need to sell them then they have to go back into the system where they are re-sold for face value with the new name printed on them (like camp conduit and others have suggested).

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